News About the Project
We’ve been busy filling our calender with events for the remainder of the year. Here’s the busy schedule we’ve set for ourselves thus far…
On the 28th October, the Trust will be present with a stall at the ‘Tyseley Steam Open Day‘. We encourage all our supporters to make their way to Tyseley for a wonderful day of steam. Tyseley will be throwing open the doors of its magnificent workshops and depot so the open day is rare opportunity for the public to glimpse behind the scenes including a chance to see the progress on the restoration of 7029 Clun Castle. While there, drop by and have a chat with us and show your support with a donation or by becoming a member.
On the 9th November, Trustee Paul Hibberd along with Brian Hall of the B17 Trust will be presenting a talk on the aims and challenges of building a new build steam locomotive to the technology group of the U3A (University of the Third Age) – ‘a collection of self-help, self-managed lifelong learning co-operatives for older people no longer in full time work, providing opportunities for their members to share learning experiences in a wide range of interest groups and to pursue learning not for qualifications, but for fun’.
Paul will of course be discussing our new build project. There is a wealth of technical and practical knowledge out there, as well as unbridled enthusiasm amongst Britain’s seniors – knowledge and experience that is scandalously under-utilised in today’s society. We will of course be encouraging those interested to join us on this project.
Finally, on the 17th November the Trust will present the project at a luncheon held by the LNWR Society in Crewe. A number of the LNWR Society’s members are either actively involved or supportive of the Trust’s endeavours. We will be presenting progress and outlining plans for the future.
The luncheon is open to LNWR Society members only, however membership provides access to a wealth of knowledge and the rare archival material on the endlessly fascinating LNWR – material that has been painstakingly preserved and collated over the years by the Society’s members to become the largest single repository of information and relics pertaining to the London & North Western Railway and its constituents. This tremendous depth of knowledge also extends to the membership, which is some 700 strong.
An update on the build itself. As it can be inferred from the previous blog post (below), the part we’ve selected for fabrication is the smokebox door. This will be the first new component of a new-build LNWR George. Building a new-build locomotive of an extinct class is like archeology. It’s proving both fascinating and enlightening to dig down through the layers and glean a better understanding of the history of a locomotive class, with all the incremental changes during the course of its working life.
The detailed plans we’ve obtained from the NRM were produced by the LMS’s Drawing Office in 1930 (signed off by Hewitt Beames – the last CME of the LNWR and successor to Charles Bowen Cooke, the designer of the LNWR George the Fifth class) and entail a few small changes to the original design, notably a door-mounted MR/LMS style lamp-iron, which differs markedly from the square-slot LNWR-style lamp-iron (these were mounted above the door with the handrail integrated in LNWR days). Checking this detailed drawing against the original LNWR drawings in our collection and against photos of Georges in service under the LNWR confirms that the door in the detailed LMS drawing is the original profile and design sans the addition of the lamp-iron and the placement of the dog-bolts (which we won’t be fabricating at this stage).
We’re currently double and triple-checking everything before proceeding as we want our George to be ‘as-built’ but things are looking good to go for the door and we hope to have more news in the coming weeks.
What a sight that would be! A new-build LNWR George the Fifth in full-flight on Britain’s (and the world’s?) only preservation society dedicated to preserving a former mainline and operating an extended double-track where the one can experience the trill of steam engines passing at speed!
To get to this stage however, numerous small and incremental steps are required. One of those steps was the GCR Gala at Loughborough where some of the team (Tom and Paul) as well as friends and members, Marcello Gabrielli and Richard Walsh of the Jinty Appeal (more anon) were were in attendance, manning our modest stall, taking donations, memberships and fielding questions. The response again was tremendously positive and we thank everyone who paid us a visit. We also thank the wonderful staff at the Great Central Railway and we heartedly recommend a visit if you’ve never been, and a revisit if you have.
You may notice in the photo below that Paul and Tom are holding a drawing. This is a fairly obvious clue to what we’ll be fabricating first. Yes that’s letting the proverbial cat out of the bag somewhat earlier than intended but the lads are justifiably excited by this development. We hope to officially announce this shortly once all the T’s are crossed and those I’s are well-and-truly dotted.
Regarding the Jinty Appeal. We’d like to encourage our readers and members to consider assisting Marcello and Richard at the Jinty Appeal with the overhaul of 47357, an LMS 3F Jinty at Butterley. £40,000 to complete the restoration properly and the task is being undertaken by the Midland Railway -Butterley‘s younger volunteers. If you wish to assist with a donation, however small while helping the next generation of rail preservationists carry the torch you can visit the appeal’s site here.And remember, you can be a part of making a new George the Fifth a reality. Donations can be made and memberships forms can be obtained from our website here.
The trust will man a stall at the Great Central Gala at Loughborough on Sunday, 7th October. If you’re planning to attend or just happen to be in the area, drop by to say hello and have a chat!
Members Paul Hibberd and Tom Mainprize have returned from a weekend manning a stall for the George the Fifth Steam Locomotive Trust ( and moonlighting at dog-minders for visitors!) at glorious Llangollen where a celebration of all things steam took place at the Llangollen Railway Gala. Truly Llangollen is well worth the visit. On arrival at Llangollen the Stationmaster, who was very helpful gave us the freedom of positioning anywhere within reason under the canopy on Platform 1. We chose to locate to the far end of the canopy about 20ft from the entrance.
The weekend proved to be a great success with the profile of the project raised just a little higher and firm friendships and associations forged with the chaps at Llangollen and with other new-build projects, specifically the team behind the LMS Patriot build who were also present (their build is based there). We humbly thank them and the team on the Betton Grange Project, which is also based at Llangollen. The members of these new-build projects were generous with their time and their words of advice, offering invaluable insights and personal expressions of support. We forged many new firm friendships and connections while there and we even agreed with the Patriot team that some day we’d have a completed George double-heading with ‘The Unknown Warrior’!
What a marvelous sight that would be!
Our humble thanks must of course go out to those people who dropped money in our donation box, who signed up either as a ‘Friend of George’ or a Convenantor and who entrusted us with their dogs while they rode the line (see the photo below). We thank the public for the many inquiries and expressions of support over the course of the two days. If you wish to make a donation, become a Convenantor or head with time and skills , please head over to our website and click on the How to Help link.
Of course, we must thank all the people at the Llangollen Railway for a wonderful celebratory weekend of steam and for their unfailing assistance and support. We are currently planning our next stall and are in the advanced stages of planning the first part of a new George to be fabricated. We’re very excited about this and can’t wait to tell you all. So finally, a big thank you to for all those who have donated or become Convenantors thus far!
Watch this space!
This short article is intended to give you an idea of the power and speed that the George the Fifth class was capable of in service on the ‘mountainous’ section of the West Coast Main Line, rather than a contest of ‘which is best’. The runs in comparison are 46233 Duchess of Sutherland on the Royal Scot PMR tour from Crewe to Carlisle on 9 June this year (reported in Steam Railway magazine, issue 404, p.81) and 1662 on the Crewe to Carlisle portion of the 10am Euston to Glasgow express circa 1912 (reported on p.89 of O S Nock’s book ‘The Precursor Family’).
Firstly one must put both runs into context and perspective. 46233 was taking a moderate load of 380 gross tons, 1662 was taking a load of 370 tons gross. So the loads are broadly comparable, perhaps even more so given the rolling resistance of the stock in use a hundred years ago. Secondly it is not entirely straightforward to ascertain what timing points Nock was using. For example was his ‘Shap summit’ the modern milepost thirty seven and a quarter, and his Tebay (the old station) appears to be half a mile south of the modern ‘Tebay North’. Thirdly 46233 stops in Carnforth loop for water (roughly 0.31 miles South of Carnforth Station), 1662 was probably doing around 65mph at this point and does not stop at Carnforth. So precise comparison is not possible but it does give a good indicator of the George’s performance. We can use 46233 as the benchmark (albeit a very high one!) being one of the most consistent and higher performing engines ever to grace British railways.
From Carnforth to Oxenholme verifies the above statement, 46233 from a standing start passed Oxenholme in 16.57, whereas 1662 took just 13.34, this was due to passing Carnforth at speed. Having troughs en route it was unnecessary to stop for water, unlike with mainline tours nowadays. The Oxenholme to Grayrigg section, with the two miles of 1 in 173 on the ascent to Grayrigg shows performance one would expect of both engines, 46233 took just 8.56 compared with the 11.20 of 1662. The speeds of both engines were clocked, 47mph for 46233 and a minimum of 32mph for 1662 in passing Grayrigg. 46233 then takes 5.25 from Grayrigg to Tebay (old station) as against 5.44 for Deerhound and so passing through the Lune Valley things would have been pretty much neck and neck (and would Deerhound have been picking up water on Tebay troughs).
From Tebay (old station) it is 5.5 miles to Shap summit and not surprisingly it was here that Sutherland pulled ahead, gaining 2.08 on the George, taking 6.38 as against 8.46. So the total time for Sutherland was 37.05 for the 31.2 miles from the loop as against 39.44 for Deerhound (for the 31.4 miles Nock quotes from Carnforth station to the summit).
This was a very fine performance for the George, but not one that was out of character. For the 59 ton 1662 with a comparable load shows an incredible performance from such a small engine with only 175lb boiler pressure available, but it did have the benefits of high temperature superheat and long-travel piston valves. 1662’s average speed throughout was a striking 47.3 mph and the average drawbar horsepower seems to have in the region of 950.
Taking all the factors together, I think it is a fascinating comparison between a quality climb of Shap on a Scottish express achieved in the conditions applicable around a hundred years ago and an excellent steam performance in today’s conditions, and the experience taken as a whole is a surprisingly close run thing – and in the absence of these plucky little Georges it is pretty clear the West Coast main line is missing something sensational. If you would like to keep updated with progress and become a ‘Friend of George’ click here and fill out the form.
If you would like to donate click here for the forms, or donate via Paypal here. If you have skills that you think would be beneficial please let us know.
By Tom Mainprize and Paul Hibberd.
LNWR GEORGE THE FIFTH STEAM LOCOMOTIVE TRUST 62 High Street, Buntingford United Kingdom, SG9 9AH
Email: thomas.mainprize@gmail.com
www.lnwrgeorgevtrust.org.ukAs well as being a member of the LGFSLT, Tom is a volunteer with (4)6233 and The Princess Royal Class Locomotive Trust
Members of the Trust will be manning a stand at the Llangollen Railway Gala on Saturday, 1st September and Sunday, 2nd September. Come along, enjoy a day of steam at the magnificent Llangollen Railway and pay us a visit while you’re there!
The latest Steam Railway magazine (No.404 July-August) has details on the 2012 HRA Steam Railway Readers Award – part of the HRA annual award scheme for Heritage Railways.
We at the LNWR George the Fifth Steam Locomotive Trust believe that the The LNWR Webb Coal Tank Webb Coal Tank 1054 (BR 58926); the sole surviving member of a class of 300, which has recently undergone an extensive restoration to working order, thoroughly deserves nomination.
And George agrees! He says, support one of his relations.
So why would anyone want to nominate the Coal Tank?
Well – lots of reasons really!
- The engine now operating is the result of a high quality, and totally volunteer-based, extensive overhaul.
- Historical research has benefited the completion of the engine in an authentic manner and provided information for the publication of an award-winning book and audio CD.
- Detail features such as the manufacture of replica LNW headlamps and engine driver’s caps for the footplate crew enhance that authenticity.
- Carefully considered renumbering/livery changes are helping to interpret the story of the engine during it’s working life, such as the re-creation of the last train from Abergavenny to Merthyr.
- Completion of the project has made us more aware of the Coal Tank’s importance in the whole spectrum of railway and locomotive heritage. Precious Few LNWR engines have survived into preservation and the Coal Tank is a unique glimpse of a class which was once a mainstay of the London & North Western Railway. Operational Late Victorian engines are a rare site in preservation steam as it is, and the Coal Tank is the only operational Late Victorian Engine representing the old LNWR.
For more information on the Webb’s Coal Tanks, check out the Wikipedia page here. Further information on 1054 (BR 58926) and on the dedicated team behind her careful and considered restoration to working order can be found here.
The nomination form can be found on page 20 of the current issue of Steam Railway. (Well worth the subscription we might add). The nomination form states: “I nominate… because…” We’ve outlined just a few of the reasons why the Coal Tank deserves the nomination here to help you out!
Completed forms should be sent to:
HRA Steam Railway Awards
Steam Railway
Bauer Media House
Lynchwood, Peterborough PE2 6EAName, address, home and mobile telephone and email must be supplied. Photocopied forms will not be accepted however you can email your nomination (i.e The Coal Tank of course!) to: steam.railway@bauermedia.co.uk
Let’s give the team behind the restoration of the Coal Tank and this marvellous little engine the credit they thoroughly deserve!
If you attended Railfest and wrote down your details on the contact form provided but as yet haven’t received a copy of an amalgamated May and June Newsletter and a confirmation of becoming a ‘Friend of George‘ we do apologise. There were a small number of submissions with handwriting that was difficult to decipher (about 10). If you wish to become a ‘Friend of George‘ we cordially invite you to head over to our website, click on the ‘Become a Friend‘ link in the menu and fill-out the secure online form provided. We will endaevour to respond to you shortly.
Anyone else out there interested in Becoming a ‘Friend of George‘ is also invited to head on over and fill out this simple and quick online form. We look forward to hearing from you!
To celebrate the launch of the Trust, member Grant Regan recently completed a painting of an unnamed George the Fifth on a morning express to symbolise the rebirth of the class. Over distant hills, the first rays of a new day are glimpsed. Titled ‘Into the Dawn‘ we hope that it conveys the spirit of the LNWR Georges and of the the ‘Premier Line‘, the London & North Western Railway.We’re back from Railfest in York and we’re exhilarated and overwhelmed by the enthusiastic response we received there. People of all ages came to chat and many signed the email lists and took donation and subscriber forms.
A highlight of the event for the Trust was undoubtedly the donation of a genuine LNWR steam whistle – a physically small yet symbolically momentous piece of the new locomotive. The voice of our new George will be authentically LNWR! Paul Hibberd, one of the Trustees, was presented with the whistle from Robin Dean in the cab of ‘Hardwicke‘. Robin told us he was given the whistle by someone at Wolverton carriage works some sixty years ago. He said it was from one of the two LNWR 0-6-2 tanks there which had just gone up to Crewe to be scrapped. He had hoped to save one of these engines and the whistle was a consolation gift!
We thank Robin for his generous donation.
The LNWR George the Fifth Steam Locomotive Trust is humbly seeking volunteers for the roles of Trust Secretary/Admin and Drawings Officer with relevant mechanical engineering experience.
We invite you to tender your interest to GeorgeVtrust@gmail.com or write to us at the address provided on our Contacts page of the main website.
The LNWR George the Fifth Steam Locomotive Trust will be at Railfest at York on 8th,9th and 10th June.
Drop by and have a chat!
29 October – Initial Steering Group meeting. Items discussed included finance, advertising, website, initial action planning.
14 May – Bruce Nixon and Paul Hibberd attended the L&NWR Society AGM at Quainton, Buckinghamshire and gave a presentation. Derek Buckles volunteered and the initial Steering Group was formed.
