News About the Project

Please refer to the image  below as it provides context  of the manufacturing process  including a human working at his desk screen immediately behind the frames which is how things are done these days. Tata will be profiling and painting these frames before they are delivered to our private CCTV protected North Nottinghamshire base where a site is being prepared for them.

We have just heard from Tata Steel Profiles that our main frames (each over 23 foot long) have been cut and have passed their ultrasound test. They now await profiling and painting before we take delivery which will probably be in about a fortnight’s time.

We are delighted to bring our supporters the news that the main frame plates for ‘Prince George’ have been ordered from Tata Steel Profiles.  As soon as this week material will be at the Wednesbury plant to await its slot in the production schedule. This marks the start of a programme of work on the foundation of the locomotive, manufacturing the major components  such as hornblocks, stretchers etc as shown in the CAD image.  Note that the colours are purely to highlight the different major components.

MAJOR COMPONENTS OF MAIN FRAMES

FRONT FRAMES (ALREADY EXISTING) ATTACH TO FRONT END OF MAIN FRAMES

The front and rear frame plates of the George were overlapped between the cylinders and the motion plate. This was because of the limited size of machine tools available at Crewe .  We already have the front frame plates; however we will be concentrating on the main frames as the main structure of the locomotive.

LNWR express locomotives gained a reputation for cracked frames during the LMS era.  Possible causes include removal of the centre frame supporting the crank axle centre bearing, as ordered by Hughes, but very likely they were simply too lightly built.  Our locomotive’s frame plates are 30mm thick as against the original 1” (25.4mm) and they are deeper between the driving axles.

Unfortunately not all parts can be manufactured identical with the original.  For example, the dragbox supports the brake cylinder and a bell crank lever.  The first 20 locomotives had the rather unusual LNWR vertical steam brake cylinder.  This worked a linkage to operate both locomotive and tender brakes.  Later locomotives had separate cylinders on engine and tender, much more sensible except for that it was vacuum brake with huge 21” diameter cylinders.  Most steam locomotives had steam brake cylinders on locomotive and tender. The LMS and BR used the same 10” cylinder to the end of steam construction in 1960, so that is probably what we will use.

Hornblocks will be designed around roller bearing axleboxes and manganese liners to improve reliability and reduce overhaul costs.  In order to be confident in our frame plate dimensions, it was necessary to select the bearings and model the axleboxes in some detail, which will pay dividends when we move on to them.  Before committing to machining the frame plates we need to ensure that we define all the holes required for mounting the multitude of smaller details, such as brake hanger brackets, valve motion, attachments for cylinder cock and damper operating links, sand boxes and pipes.

We are now setting about detail design of the major components shown and getting costs for them, and their assembly into the locomotive frame.  After that we will work up a fund-raising appeal so we can assemble the frames.

I am really excited about the prospect of getting the main frames assembled thereafter assembling our existing parts on the frames and giving shape to number 2013 ‘Prince George’, and I hope our supporters will be equally enthused.

There will be further news on the locomotive shortly but a great deal is going on now behind the scenes so that progress to be made.

One area everybody is very conscious of is how rapidly the world is ‘going digital’. This includes communicating our message and fundraising and this is especially so at a time when Covid19 constraints severely impair opportunities for face to face events.

We are therefore delighted to report that via the Digital Lab scheme of the Arts Marketing Association (ultimately funded by Heritage Lottery) we have secured the services of Oliver Edwards for the next year to improve our digital presence. Ollie runs his own digital marketing company (Oliver Edwards Marketing) and combines being a genuine railway enthusiast with a client list in the ‘railway preservation industry’ and a relevant and credible academic background.

Our first virtual meeting took place last Friday (October 9) and highlights our need for two specific volunteers – firstly somebody who would like to produce short (200 word) items with an archive photo related not just to the locos but to the world of the London & North Western Railway and the early LMS more generally and secondly somebody who would like to take responsibility for posting these items on our facebook page. The first role is armchair based and the second requires a few moments of regular time for somebody who is digitally comfortable. If you are either of these people or someone in your family or an acquaintance is please let us know.

We have also formed a link with the digital department of University of Derby which is close to our manufacturing base and are taking part in a project for their students this term.

On the personnel front we are losing for the time being  Chali Chaligha of Leicester de Montford University who has spent the gap year of his mechanical engineering degree with us learning about computers, the characteristics of railway wheels and the paperwork engineers have to produce ‘in the real world’ to seek regulatory approvals for operation on ‘the big railway’.

JWe are also delighted to announce that Bruce Nixon, for many years a lone advocate of the need to recreate LNWR steam and a Trustee of our Trust ab initio until earlier this year has been made President, undoubtedly a well-deserved honour.

Lastly we would like to mention ‘anonymus; who has given us a lump sum donation of £5000 plus gift aid, undoubtedly a firm vote of confidence in us. We do believe that depth of understanding generates depth of feeling for our project and aspire that similar depth of feeling will inspire others to feel the emotion, follow this example and bring the future closer!

“Railway Magazine August issue includes a 6-page article in Practice and Performance covering the exploits of the George the Fifth class, mostly from their early days.  It is well recommended reading for our supporters 

“The Trust gets only a passing mention, so we have submitted a letter giving more details of our achievements to date and our immediate plans, together with a picture of our front end.  Hopefully this will be published in the next issue.”

Roof has been collected! We hope to get it shot blasted and  painted today.

We wish His Royal Highness Prince George a happy seventh birthday today.  One day we hope that we can offer him a chance to drive our new locomotive recreating the pre-World War I glory of the LNWR.

In setting about the cab design and manufacture we had to consider:-

1. Keeping as true to the LNWR profile as possible
2. Crew safety, including impact protection, precautions under overhead wires, access between cab and running plate
3. Weather protection
4. Handling & storage
5. Cost and weight

Keeping the LNWR Profile

LNWR cabs had a relatively easy curve to the main part of the roof, which became more pronounced as boilers became larger in the late 19^th and early 20^th centuries.  Reverse curvature on the outer part of the roof  enable the attachment to the cab side to utilise a standard angle section.  After the grouping, the LMS required wider route availability and rather crudely modified the outer part of the cab roof to a convex curve, bringing the cab roof/cab side  joint lower down.  This completely changed the appearance of the LNWR Cabs.  More recently the gauge has been further reduced, causing problems for many locomotives already licensed to run on Network Rail.  Our first attempt was to design the cab to fit within the Network Rail Locomotive gauge.  While we were satisfied with the aesthetic appearance, consideration of the complexity of the gauging process, particularly in an area little used by other vehicles, led to a rethink.  By demonstrating that our loco fits within the profile of a locomotive already cleared, the risks are greatly reduced.  Fortunately, thanks to the Bahamas Locomotive Society, we were able to design a new cab profile inside the measured profile of Jubilee 5596.  While of reduced corner height and width compared to the original, the general appearance of the LNWR cab is preserved. 

Crew safety

Impact protection for traincrew  is very important for modern locomotive designers.  Although new builds have been allowed some derogation by alternative risk mitigation measures, the continued use of thin sheet cab structures is not always necessary.  Our front, side and roof sheets are 8mm as against 3.2mm of the LNWR.  While this doesn’t give the same degree of protection as a modern cab, it is a great deal less vulnerable than the original.  Of course it helps that we are happy with every little bit more axleload on the coupled wheels!

Under overhead wires it will be necessary to physically prevent crew (and their shovels or fire irons) from getting too close to live wires.  We haven’t got as far as designing anything specific, but we have made provision for attaching fittings to the rear cab roof stiffener.

One undesirable feature of the design is that the width of the footplating allowed for crew to pass outside the cab whilst cling on precariously to the rail on the lower cab side panel.  After a fireman suffered serious injury, the LNWR fitted a proper handrail on the upper cab side.  This would merely serve to encourage dangerous behaviour, which persisted to the end of steam.  One ex—fireman told me of an occasion when, after building up the fire of a Duchess for the southbound ascent of Shap, he turned round to find himself alone on the footplate.  His driver had taken it into his head to check the correct lamps were displayed, also perhaps thinking to wind up his fireman.  Eliminating this hazard would mean altering the locomotive and our only option is to forbid access outside the cab.  Perhaps we can employ spikes on the footplating  as well.

Weather Protection

The original LNWR cab roof overhung the sides by 2½”, so rainwater was slightly away from the cab side.  The LMS modification eliminated the overhang, and although a rain strip was provided it was very shallow.  Drivers had to expect cold rainwater on their heads!  Roof overhang is limited by the gauge requirements, so we have fitted a rain strip to the edge of the cab roof and the rear handrail is a tube, serving as a drain.  We are under no illusions as to protection at speed or in windy weather, but it will help at low speeds and in light wind conditions.

Handling & Storage

Until relatively recently, workshop staff had to work out for themselves how to lift, store and transport components.  We have provided lifting points and designed a simple handling frame so that the cab top mounted on a large pallet can be safely handled without risk of being unbalanced despite the limited length of cab side panels relative to the roof.

Cost & Weight

The LNWR cab was flush rivetted, with angled joint pieces.  The number of parts required, holes to be drilled through and countersunk, and the actual riveting would have made for an expensive assembly.  Welding, using tab and slot assembly like a child’s toy, is both stronger (and safer) and more economical with the same smooth external faces as the original. Views on methods of construction vary, quite legitimately; our view is we want to replicate the essentials of a George, but with modern techniques where appropriate.  As already mentioned, the weight of the cab (just under 500kg or half a ton) is a small but useful addition to the adhesive weight.

Conclusion

Sometime this year we  hope to be able to show the completed cab mounted on the existing fully painted lower cab and splasher assembly.  Visitors can then judge for themselves whether we have successfully preserved the essence of the LNWR design.

More photos above!!

Cab Tack Welded! More details to follow.

Cab beading now exists! Further exciting news and pictures to follow soon.

Some further news re the new George:

Please see below image of upper parts of the cab and the roof. The order for this was placed on Friday May 15. This is a substantial metal fabrication weighing over half a ton and I think it is pretty plain to see that we have retained far more of the LNWR ethos than the LMS did when it crudely cut the cabs down to fit on the rest of their network! Next step we expect to be the rear frames from Tata Steel (hopefully quite soon). We also hope to give small groups of supporters the opportunity to come and see the front part of the locomotive (smokebox, chimney,

front buffer beam etc. once lock-down is lifted -would people who are interested please contact me at paulhibberd@gmail.com .

Hello and welcome to a slightly surreal edition of our newsletter! We hope that you enjoy our update which we hope provides some relief and light fun in the way of a Quiz!

Given the strange circumstances of the majority of us being isolated, we have developed a quiz for to give everyone a break from the obvious. We welcome all to take part with the winner receiving a free mug and pen. Please send completed copies back to the email address at the bottom of the quiz or alternatively print and post them to the address given. The deadline for entry is 17:00 on the 1st May 2020. We hope you enjoy it!

Please find a copy of our Quiz sheet by clicking here

Despite the ‘pause’ we are all experiencing in our daily lives. The build is continuing apace; the boiler is out for consultation to evaluate the design, several parts have been ordered and are in the process of being fabricated, whilst the calculations to satisfy ‘authorities’ for the bogie wheels are almost complete. Our CME Terry will go in to more detail on all of this in the CME’s Office. The Trust is providing Chali Chaligha, an engineering undergraduate from De Montfort University with a practical grounding in railway engineering. Chali has the makings of a first class engineer and the Trust are really happy with his approach and attitude, the Trust is also assist Chali by providing professional training to bolster his growing skill set.

We must also sadly report the passing of Crewe Works No.9 and No.10 shop where the Georges were built. The Trust had been in contact with site owners several times over the years and had been proactively working with them to stage a photo of the built section of the Locomotive in front of the Shops before they were finally torn down. Discussion progressed well with the site owner who then prevaricated preventing the photo to occur before it was all torn down. We were naturally very dissapointed by this but are aware of the value and importance of the houses on such a site.

The Trust is now a recognised beneficiary where Amazon (the online retailer) donates 0.5% of net sales between the various beneficiaries, which is a really exciting prospect for the Trust. We have applied to also be a beneficiary of Vintage Giving’s scheme, this is where people who spring clean donate items which can then be sold to raise funds. Items are welcomed and certainly well received with the Trust please click here for more information on donating items.

Financially, at the present cash is king. The Trust is in  a strong position thanks to your generosity and feels in a strong position to weather the impact of the current situation. It may affect suppliers ability to fulfil orders to time but we continue to liaise with them and work with them to make sure we all get through this situation in as fit and healthy state as possible. As always this is only possible by the kind and generous backing we receive from all of you; our supporters and friends. Your good work is going along way in many different ways; education, supporting small UK businesses and building a lovely Locomotive to boot! We hope you continue to enjoy watching and supporting us along the way.

Ed. If any supporters know the location or own a crystal ball to foresee where we will be as an economy in 8 to 12 months the Trust would gladly like to take a peak!

CME’s Office- Engineering Update

The boiler design is progressing well, we are now looking for assistance from experts who can review the design and assist with certification under the EU Pressure Equipment Directive. This is a big milestone in heading towards the construction phase of the boiler, where once we have reached a consensus we can move towards the cutting of metal. Needless to say given the criticality of getting a boiler ‘right’ this will naturally take some time (especially in the current circumstances). We will update you on boiler progress as soon as we have news from our discussions.

An important milestone was reached with the completion of the intermediary running plate, see picture below. Fabrication was complex as the drawings show a very complex construction of angles, bars and plate with hundreds of countersunk rivets. We have made best use of funds by changing to welded fabrication, using “tab and slot” assembly identical in appearance to the original, it was not a simple piece to fabricate in order to seamlessly join smokebox to splasher via the frames and be strong enough to stand up to your editor’s weight on top of it!

With the running plate complete we now have a sizeable collection parts and we need to start erecting them. Therefore the main frame plates’ design is being calculated in preparation for fabrication. As has been mentioned previously during their later years the frames on Georges cracked, we must prove to the VAB that we have designed out and mitigated any such known flaws, which we are currently doing. The main frame plates are critical in that they allow us to splice the two frames together and start erecting the locomotive properly. We hope to bring you positive news on this in the summer.

As we write this the cab roof is going through its final cross referencing and it should be ordered and being fabricated in the summer, please enjoy the computerised drawings and hopefully the real thing soon!

Analysis of the bogie wheel has been completed by Chali, who is now writing up his findings which enables us to review the design against a ‘known’ design, in this case a LMS standard bogie wheel and its BR successors; which is accepted by the modern railway. Once the assessment is complete we can go out to tender and get the castings of all 4 wheels made. In the meantime in enjoy the picture showing Chali’s excellent work.

A generous donation has been made to the Trust in the form of the money to purchase a complete set of brand new LNWR Locomotive Lamps. The Trust has therefore engaged one of the leading lamp makers in the country to fabricate these lamps. The order is placed and work should commence in June. The Georges generally carried a 1912 pattern lamp, no originals appear to exist (we would be grateful if one could appear in order to copy, if anyone has one or knows the whereabouts of one) without it we have a drawing and have received assistance from numerous groups and people; including the Bahamas Locomotive Society and the London and North Western Railway Society, to name but two sources. Our thanks are placed to both of these organisations for their support, wealth of information and knowledge they have imparted to us.

Dear Friends and Supporters,

First may I say a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all!

The Trust has had another strong year and I wanted firstly, to take a moment to reflect and thank you all for your support. After all this vision, this engine, is only possible with your help and generous support. I think the recent newsletter encapsulates exactly what this is all about and the pictures highlight what we all are achieving together. I believe no other project is as exciting, nor as bold as ours- no one else is attempting to put a pre grouping locomotive on the mainline or a 4-4-0! We are… and collectively we are succeeding.

Projects like ours are complex and we always strive to keep you informed of progress, it is a fine line, as our hard working team have to make sure we do our due diligence, making sure we retain authenticity whilst meeting the rightly fastidious standards of mainline operation. We hope the execution highlights this dedication to first class British workmanship, skill and crafting the finest engine possible for us all to enjoy!

Work continues apace on completing the boiler design (and all important drawings for inspection by pressure vessel experts), the bogie wheels/ bogie whilst succeeding this will be either the cylinder block, main frames or crank axle- the crank axle is probably the most complex and significant component on the whole locomotive with a price tag to match! Next year we also hope to complete the visual outline, which at least in part, we hope to display so you can come and see ‘Prince George’ at first hand. By rolling the boiler barrel shell and completing the cab, this will give us a tantalising prospect of looking at ‘Prince George’ above the running plate largely complete, this the first time in over 70 years that a George will be viewed like this, what a prospect!

All these efforts naturally require money and the donations made by you are our lifeblood, we appreciate every penny that you can support us with, it all contributes to these wonderful results. You can donate below, by postal address (right at the bottom of the email) or write to me directly via email here.

We hope you enjoy being a part of journey and here is to a very successful and prosperous New Year to ‘Prince George’ and every one of you!

Yours Sincerely,

Paul

Hello and welcome to this new look, winter edition of the George the Fifth Newsletter!

The project has had a strong year and is very much on track to complete the visual outline within the next year (excluding boiler!) This is a fascinating task of understanding Crewe practices and how these can be retained in the 21^st Century, it certainly takes some thought to keep aesthetics as true to Crewe as possible whilst fitting onto a ‘smaller railway’, we hope you appreciate the results. The visuals aside a serious amount of work has gone into the boiler design, once this is complete the project will move on to the cylinder block and crank axle- probably the most complex operation we shall undertake (minus the bureaucracy labyrinth) due to the stresses it is placed under alongside those of the frames and track. We also welcome Chali, an engineering undergraduate who is on placement for a year with the project.

The Project is now garnering a significant amount of components both large and small and we require a new site, as we also wish that you can view as much of our progress and locomotive as is possible. We are therefore in discussions with a number of parties to find a long term site and potentially some interim options. Over the next year we hope to have a more specific update.

George’s were awarded a place in the Railway Magazine’s bookazine ‘Legendary Locomotives’, the authors approached us stating they had selected George’s alongside Big Boy’s, A3’s and other notable classes to feature in their publication- and why not! The word is clearly getting around about these fantastic machines! A link to purchasing a copy can be found here.

We have made designed and stocked Mugs and Pens, with the image of both below hard at work on our engineer’s desk! The cost is a donation of £12.50 (inclusive of postage and packaging). If you would like to order one you can place an order in various ways; click the make a donation button below donating the above amount and add a note of ‘for the mug/pen’, send a cheque to our postal address (at the bottom of the newsletter) or email us directly- click here.

From a fundraising point of view we have had an expensive year! With all of the orders and costs associated, we now have a fantastic part of the locomotive we intend to display. Funds remain buoyant but we certainly have expensive items coming up to order.

We hope at this time of year you will consider donating to the George, no matter how small or large this donation it is gratefully received. You can donate via the button below, cheque to our postal address (at the bottom of the email) or contact as via email- click here. 

ENGINEERING PROGRESS

This year has seen a continuing progress.  Early in the year we ordered the piano front, and the front section of footplating (called covering plate by the LNWR) and assembled it with our smokebox, buffer beam handrail, and lamp sockets on a stand suitable for display.  We have used modern techniques to make the money go further.  The LNWR used a rather complex arrangement of angles and hundreds of rivets either side to support the footplating.  All the rivets were countersunk to give a level walking surface; very expensive! Modern profile cutting and welding makes for a better and more economical job.  Laser-cut plates incorporate tab and slot construction, like a child’s toy, the tabs are welded through the slot and then weld is ground level with the plate.  Bolting it all together was very satisfying, out first big part of the locomotive.

Sadly, our hopes of setting up a photograph of it in front of the 1903 No. 9 Erecting Shop were dashed when the shop was demolished.  Hopes of showing it at Crewe Heritage Centre were also dashed when the event fizzled out.

Nevertheless, the front end looks impressive, and we hope to be able to display it in 2020.

More recently we have taken delivery of the intermediate sections of the footplating to fit between the front end and the splasher.

Another item ordered was the dome, a surprisingly challenging item.  Crewe made thousands of these, with a pressed hemispherical top and a castellated interface to the cylindrical part. The latter was flanged outwards at the lower end to meet the boiler cladding.  The castellated join can be seen on close examination of the Coal Tank’s dome.  After looking at various options, we decided that an aluminium casting was the best option.  Making the pattern proved a challenge, but RF&D’s patternmaker persevered and the finished item looks good.

A seemingly insignificant item is the rolled steel section between the upper and lower cab side panels.  This seems to have been used from the very early days of Crewe right through to the Claughtons, about 60 years.  Hot-rolling is out of the question nowadays unless  we want 20 tons – hardly likely!  We have found a manufacturer willing to fabricate and machine left and right hand rails for us, and these should be delivered early in the New Year.

Next up is the cab top.  This isn’t straightforward as the LNWR cab corners foul the modern loading gauge.  With a bit of adaptation of profile radii we think we can comply with gauge whilst preserving the appearance of the LNWR cab.  In LMS days the main convex radius of the roof was continued to the outer edge, completely changing the appearance.  We want to replicate as much as possible of the appearance of the LNWR roof.  More on this in the next issue.  Once we have the cab top, probably next summer, we will definitely need a base in which to assemble the full length of our parts.

Meanwhile, unseen, work on the boiler design has continued.  As is only right, this is subject to strict regulation, but it comes back to the old BS 2790, almost 200 pages plus related documents.  The design seemed near completion but our CAD system, Fusion 360 was getting slower and slower.  On the verge of producing drawings, we had to accept that the free F360 is a bit too limited. Our undergraduate, Chali, also found the same while trying to assess bogie wheel stresses. In the end, we had to bite the bullet and buy a professional standard CAD system for several thousand pounds.  The pain is slightly reduced by a 25% grant, our first encounter with the world of grant-giving bodies.  Our Treasurer found this painful, and no wonder!

After learning the new system, using the cab top as a learning exercise, the boiler model will be rebuilt, with the added benefit of all the weld details which Fusion 360 couldn’t handle.

STEM

The Trust’s objectives include education, particularly STEM – Science, Technology, Engineering & Mathematics.  We have taken on Chali Chaligula, studying Engineering at De Montfort University, Leicester, and he is taking a year out working with us.  His immediate project is analysis of the LNWR bogie wheel.  CHALI CAN TELL HIS OWN TALE OF F360 FRUSTRATION AND HIS LIAISON WITH ALAN JAMES AND JAMIE.

16th November – LNWR Society Luncheon today – our sales stand below:

The Middle Bits have now been fabricated.

Running plate for each side from rear of smokebox back to splasher. This gives us a complete running plate from buffer beam to rear of cab for the left hand side of the loco.

One of our supporters is working on a 2mm model of the LNWR George the Fifth based on what can only be the earliest known 2mm model train by Bing. I think it will look super and amazing’ don’t you?

He is making a replica of this set using a modified Lone Star 000 A4 4-6-2 chassis cut down and altered into a 4-4-0 chassis and N Scale pieces, and yes, he will number it No. 2013 and name it Prince George after the replica we are building. So far, he has completed the running-board and front buffer-beam as well as the tender coupling, he has started work on the boiler and the tender will follow.

Our supporter says “So, I wish you the best of luck upon completing the finished locomotive and I may even appear in clothes of the early 1900s right up to 1920 when the locomotive is steamed after completion.”

The Trust is anxious to play a role in engineering education. This is a step we plan to build on to use steam to inspire the young towards an interest in engineering. To this end we welcome Chali Chaligha to our team and he writes:

I’m delighted to be working for the LNWR George the Fifth Steam Locomotive Trust for a year, as part of my undergraduate study of mechanical engineering. I have been captivated by works of engineering and in particular steam locomotives from as far back as I can remember, a fascination that came with an admiration for the ways of the past. This led me to the Bristol Harbour Railway where I  actively volunteered from age 14 until I left for university. There I had hands on experience of working with my fellow volunteers on the wide variety of tasks required to  run and maintain a steam railway. The time I spent on the BHR kindled within me the desire for a more holistic, human centric approach to engineering. Aiming to make this central to my future practice, I saw a place for steam. My interest in developing the steam engine as an invaluable piece in a future where sustainability is key, led me to the Advanced Steam Traction Trust, one of the few organisations in the world dedicated to understanding and improving mobile steam. From there the outstretched hand of Jamie Keyte introduced me to George Fifth Trust members, who together helped me secure a placement that I was keen to accept.

My year in industry is a fantastic opportunity to learn the technical theories and practices behind steam locomotives, practise the tools I learned at university, and develop the skills necessary to be a successful engineer in the 21st century. I am very grateful to the senior engineers who are guiding me on this journey, and the rest of the team who are making this all possible. It motivates me to know that the hours given to this project will be a contribution towards breathing living fire into a piece of history that will inspire generations toward a better future.

13th July – Trustees Meeting (see above picture) at which Paul Hibberd (left) took over as Chairman from Bruce Nixon (right) :

Bruce 

You have been an inspiration for our group and we will still need your invaluable help as we progress!

Items discussed:

Progress Report

Financial Reports:

1 – Boiler Barrel Club Update

2 – Overall Finances

3 – Year Outlook and Projections

Engineering Reports

Posts/Roles to fill – SEE VOLUNTEERING PAGE

Goals/Forward Planning.

8th July – The above photo shows demolition in progress at Crewe.

The Georges were erected (along with many other famous locomotives) in number nine shop, Webb’s erecting shop, at Crewe and left for the outside world from there.

We knew that there was going to be demolition but had hoped to be able to negotiate with Bombardier that the front of our loco might be displayed at the entrance to the erecting shop as ‘the last steam out of Crewe Works’. Alas it was not to be ….

The photograph shows some demolition that is already in progress at the works and we understand that number 9 shop and they number 10 shop are to follow shortly.

The front section of our loco will be on display at Crewe Heritage Centre on Saturday 8 June. Do come along and meet us!

26th April – Front End!

5th April – Dome pattern work progresses!

Pattern completed on the 25th April 2019

26th March – a first glimpse of the new cylinder cover plates which will be positioned at the front of the locomotive just below the smokebox.

WATCH THIS FASCINATING VIDEO!

Dome Cover ordered in time for inclusion in our display at Crewe on 8th June.

Click here to view the Dome Cover Drawing

MORE METAL ARRIVING BY THE DAY!

A preview this week from Jamie Keyte on work progressing on the running plate for the front of the locomotive and the sides as far as the end of the smokebox, together with the ‘piano front’  which sits below the front of the smokebox and acts as a cover plate for the ends of the inside cylinders. The giant size hinges are there to open the cylinder cover plate to give access to the cylinders and tail rods from the front.

We know it resembles a flatpack at the moment but we can’t wait to see it all put together with the smokebox and bufferbeam already made -it will be really striking and we plan to have it on display at Crewe on 8 June and in July and August at the Crewe Heritage Centre.

We are in detailed discussions regarding the format of the firebox, see the below extract of recent emails:

With a welded firebox, increased water space over the full height and modern rules on ligaments we can just about get the original LNWR tube layout in, maybe just losing a couple of small tubes either side.  Thinking about possible improvements, an extra row of flues might be considered; however the three rows of flues reduced the number of tubes from 309 on the Precursor to 159 on the George, suggesting that 32 flues would leave room for only 109 tubes  There would be a reduction of heating area, and possibly a need to recess the tube plate for a larger superheater header.  Such a drastic revision might prove too much.  It would certainly increase costs significantly.

Modifying the flues to reduce the rear end swaged-down length to 6” (as Stanier standard) might allow slight lengthening of the elements, increasing the length inside the flues by 7 or 8%.  Further benefit might come from increasing the bore of the elements to 1¼” from 1⅛”, giving 10% increase in heating surface and 23% increase in cross sectional area. Steam would pass more slowly, increasing heat transfer.  One snag might be the reduced free area in the flues, potentially reducing the gas flow.  Perhaps the 5⅛” flues of most LMS engines would ease this a little.   None of this should cost much.

Variations in small tube layout would be possible.  Options:-

1. 140 2” tubes, 11SWG, 2.455 in² gas flow area, (S/A)^-1 331
2. 159 1⅞” tubes, 11SWG, 2.120 in² gas flow area, (S/A)^-1 356
3. 187 1¾” tubes, 11SWG, 1.810 in² gas flow area, (S/A)^-1 385

Length between tube plates is 12’-2¼”.

The 2A boiler had 5⅛” flues, 1⅜” elements with 13’-0” between tubeplates, which suggests we are in the right area.

Note that the numbers of tubes is estimated, and it may be necessary to fit fewer when the layout is done.

Today the contract was put in place with Keyte Smith Ltd., Woodborough, Nottingham for production of all the ‘new’ parts. It is intended that the whole assembly will be on display at Crewe Heritage Centre during July and August as part of an exhibition on the history of  Crewe Works.

Proposed Display Items 2019

DATES TO BE ANNOUNCED SHORTLY.

Steam Railway is doing an item on the latest work on the front of the loco and the fact it will be displayed at Crewe Heritage Centre in July and August. This should be in either the March 1 issue or March 28.

LNWR GEORGE THE FIFTH STEAM LOCOMOTIVE TRUST appointment of director MR TERRY MCMENAMIN was accepted by Companies House! Congratulations Terry – welcome on board!

LNWR Newsletter December 2018 – George Vth progress report by Paul Hibberd with photos by James Keyte showing progress to date with the smokebox and its handrail. The below photo shows the black-painted smokebox with the handrail installed. Note also the lamp socket at top front. All the lamp socket castings for the loco and tender are now with the project:

We are progressing with the design of the shell with accoutrements (such as dome plinth and mudhole).

Once we put a dome on top to give us a visible, dramatic boiler profile for publicity purposes (together with the smokebox and chimney) we will have a very impressive boiler outline considering we started the new build project from scratch as recently as 2012!

If affordable at this time, the foundation ring could be included as well; a symbolic start on the firebox which later will be built around.

We are also shortly to work on the front of the loco to make it suitable for display at Crewe Heritage Centre during July and August. There needs to be a plate over the ends of the cylinders and some additional running plate around the front of the loco above the buffer beam.

5 members of our group attended the annual LNWR Society Luncheon (see below). This is a regular feature in our ‘meet supporters’ timetable, which we find very valuable. We have held other such events elsewhere in the Midlands, at Kidderminster, Stone, Derby and Quorn, and that we plan to hold such events for supporters both South and North of this middle England ‘belt’.

Derek Buckles gave a brief talk about his reasons for being a passionate supporter of the project and as you can see from the photograph a signed LNWR portrait was auctioned to increase our funds.

The talk: SETTING THE SCENE

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, thank you for allowing me to address you here today.

May I please have the lights down? Now I would ask you all to close your eyes for a few minutes.

Derek, a six year old, his mother, and his best friend Graham are walking to school one day in 1957.

Every weekday they walk the 2 miles through the estate, across the football pitches, and then finally through the station subway to arrive at the Infants at 9am prompt.

As they reach the subway under the four tracks Derek’s Mother says – hurry along boys or you’ll be late for assembly!

Derek replies – but Mum I want to see the trains – please 

Graham adds – please please Mrs Buckles then we will RUN all the way!!!

Mother replies in resignation – just for a minute then BUT we must not be late for assembly (again).

Derek says to Graham in triumph – great! – Come on Graham, I know just where to stand so we can see the wheels go over us!

Eyes open please – lights up

Thank you – I hope you enjoyed journeying back with me 61 years to one of my sharpest memories of life at Roby. We lived just 6 houses from the railway and I could trainspot from our back garden and from the school playground. Many of you will know that the village of Roby is on the Liverpool – Manchester main line – a line with an ancient pedigree going back to 1829.

The locomotive in question could have been an LMS black five or a Stanier tank, possibly even a Royal Scot – BUT – it was NOT an authentic LNWR locomotive as I was born too late! I feel somewhat cheated.

In fact the only LNWR locomotive I can recall seeing in my trainspotting days was G2A 49375 languishing at the back of Edge Hill shed in January 1965 it having been withdrawn back in December 1962. I wonder why it lingered there for so long – any ideas please see me later.

Had I been born 25 years earlier the locomotive hauling that train might well have been one of the Famous ‘George The Fifth’ locomotives built at Crewe between 1910 and 1915. With the last of the class being withdrawn in 1948 –BUT NONE WERE SAVED.

Now cast your mind FORWARD from 1957 to 2027 and picture a different scene:

A Saturday morning in Berkampstead – little Bruce is playing football with his brother, parents and great grandfather.

Not too far away is the London Crewe main line.

Suddenly a whistle is heard and they stop playing. The boys run to the fence as a gleaming PRINCE GEORGE swiftly passes – what a sight! Great grandfather has a tear in his eye as he explains the significance of the event.

Whilst there are a great many LNWR artefacts either still in use or preserved, no 20^th century LNWR express passenger locomotive exists.

So this scene can NEVER OCCUR – UNLESS THIS SOCIETY HELPS TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!

We at the ‘LNWR George The Fifth Steam Locomotive Trust’ are working hard to build a fully working replica which we hope will be commissioned here in Crewe – just like its forbears over 100 years ago.

You have on your tables leaflets detailing our group and the extent of our progress made to date.

So I am asking for your personal help to make this happen, either by:

1. Helping man our stand at the Crewe Heritage Centre,
2. Spreading the word amongst your friends and contacts, maybe via Facebook or other social media
3. Offering your engineering skills and knowledge
4. Or by simply supporting us financially.

Thank you for your time; let’s give future generations the chance to witness at first hand the sight and sound of the Premier Line and in particular Prince George – over to you!

The Trustees held a very constructive meeting this evening. We are looking forward to tomorrow’s LNWR Luncheon here at the Crewe Arms. . I would like to give a kind word to the Crewe Arms Hotel (a historic LNWR hotel dating back to 1846) who host this event so well each year. I would also like to bring to our readers’ attention the fact that they have a fantastic picture in their lobby/lounge close to the magnificent fireplace showing Georges George the Fifth and Coronation arriving at Crewe works with the royal train in 1913. This visit of King George V and Queen Mary is believed to be the first time a reigning sovereign visited a railway workshop.

You will be aware the above comes up this coming Sunday.

May we explain that we are recreating a genuine WW1 locomotive, hence a genuine direct link with this part of our past.

Locomotive 2370 Dovedale, the last George to be built (before ours), appeared in 1916 and was finished in unlined wartime black. We acknowledge ‘Warwickshire Railways’ as the source of this photo.

Liverpool Pals memorial dedicated and unveiled by Prince Edward.

The Pals memorial depicts them leaving on a train hauled by a Precursor, the original concept on which the George was based (and to which many Precursors were subsequently rebuilt).

The two friezes are hung high up above the entrance to the Wirral Line escalator on the station concourse in an elevated position. One depicts ‘The Home Coming’ with an LNWR George V locomotive.

Handrail fitted! (and see gallery)

Lamp sockets now fully machined

Paul Hibberd (Trustee) gave a talk to the London & North Western gathering at Kidderminster Railway Museum at Kidderminster (SVR). Many of our supporters were there and Paul used the board shown below to highlight the amount of progress made in the last year, two ten foot coupling rods, the chimney, the regulator, castings and knobs and not least substantial work on the design for the new boiler. There is no doubt that tangible progress generates positive morale and a belief that the project is actually happening in a meaningful way! We even got some money in as well.

Lamp sockets now fabricated.

11th June – See picture below of very fine knobs for the George collected today from Statfold Engineering. They will attach the handrail to the smokebox.

7th June – Handrail knobs are ready – just need to be collected.  Castings are awaiting SG material to come in and are expected next week.  The bracket will need a  bit of machining (there is a draft angle on the back plate which needs to be taken off, and the holes putting in) and then they can go to the benders.  These items need to be threaded onto the handrail prior to the tight radius bends being put on.

We have the whole of page 12 giving us coverage.

There is a letter from Paul Hibberd (trustee) expressing appreciation for the late Brian Hayes’ enthusiasm for our project and his view on its relevance to the LNWRS. There is a progress report from Peter Stanton referring to our cooperation with the coal tank people at Keighley and there is a giant sized photograph of the completed chimney.

Lovely to see us being taken seriously by LNWRS, which is a hugely important relationship for us.

Orders are with Statfold for the handrail knobs.  The lamp socket pattern is done and was dropped off at the foundry this morning, along with the pattern for the buffer beam sockets. They will be cast in SG iron.  We suspect the originals would have been standard grey cast iron which might be a bit vulnerable to knocks (railwaymen do tend to use a hammer as a universal tool).  The handrail can’t be done until the other parts are machined as they will need to be threaded onto the large radius curve before the ends are bent.

We took possession of an LNWR loco toolbox and LNWR design regulator and quadrant. In particular the regulator is a direct  and symbolic historical link between our loco and the original LNWR. The toolbox carries the name of a Bletchley driver who became a fireman there in 1941. Four Georges were withdrawn that year and we wonder if any of those were Bletchley based. If so he may have worked on a George!

Our project was promoted at this event on May 11, May 12, May 13. We had a joint stand (see below) with the LNWR Society.

Our Treasurer Paul Hibberd and Engineer Terry McMenamin visited the KWVR at Ingrow to borrow lamp socket patterns.  Pete Skellon and Steve Allsop were very helpful, and allowed full access to the Coal Tank.  Although No 1054 is a Webb engine, it was useful to see and photograph various standard LNWR items.

This week the lamp socket pattern will be off to the foundry to make the sockets for the buffer beam.  The pattern for the smokebox one needs some alteration, respecting the Coal Tank requirement which has a different offset to the George.

The order this week will be for six castings, three for the front buffer beam and three for the rear of the tender.

On a different topic, our chimney assembly (including cutting the capuchin) should be completed shortly, and after painting should be ready for display.

Trustees at Cromford to take delivery of the chimney from Israel Newton and Sons Ltd. The chimney has now been mated with the Capuchon. We hope to be able to arrange for the Original Whistle to be made serviceable BUT to stay in LNWR black.

CURRENT DRAWINGS LIST:

George Drawing List FEBRUARY 2018

We aim to update this list annually.

At the moment we are in the process of finalising force calculations for the motion. Starting from the piston valves, and now on the tail end of the lifting link and hope to finish that today or tomorrow. Next week should see the jack link and anchor link finished. After that we will need to do several illustrations to show just what is going on for each link. This is part verification that the calculations are OK but also a justification of the spreadsheet. However after next week the intense part of the work is over. We hope then to make 2D drawings of Richard Cook’s 3D model of the smoke box handrails and steam pipes, and get them made.

Chimney Base Plate ready for collection!

Having sought expert advice on the approvals process for ‘good’ heritage design (as per the new standards RIS 4472 etc) as possibly applied to the bogie, it seems that:

1. If the George bogie is the one fitted to the Claughtons (and then re-used on Patriots and Crewe-built Jubilees to February 1934 – i.e. 5552-6 and 5607-5654) then we have a chance to use that as a basis for approval.  However, the preserved locos are 5593, 5596, 5690, 5699, all nicely outside the range we want.  Despite that, the bogie being in service till the end of steam counts for something.
2. We need to catalogue the applications, fleet numbers, axle-loads, dates of introduction, scrapping dates and service type.
3. We need to demonstrate that the bogie to 16832 was indeed used on the Claughtons, and check for any available information on the re-use by the LMS – for example, side control springs
4. It may be worth checking just what changes were made to the design for the later Jubilee bogie, it looks very similar

From this we can start on a justification.

Some areas will be subject to change anyway – it seems bonkers to spend money on the curved slides ‘radial guides’ as it means the front and back guides are different.  Roller bearings mean bigger horn gaps, and square section side control springs are out, unless we want to spend lots more for a worse outcome.  We need to review the pivot too, to check it will control roll.  If necessary, alterations may be required there.

It seems we may have to do quite a bit of justification either way, but on the other hand a full stress analysis of the bogie is not a minor job.

For the bogie wheel, the news is less good.  Probably we will have to fully meet the modern load case.  Any relaxation will be minor, in which case we may as well go for compliance.  Bolted or riveted tyres are out, double-snip tyres as per Bulleid are accepted at a push, otherwise Gibson rings.  My judgement as ex BR’s former wheelsets man is that the latter is entirely justified.  Gibson rings would be hard to fit to the bogie wheel, and the small diameter means the inner snip height is limited – not good.

A CAD drawing showing the hand rail which is to be added to the smokebox which we have already produced.

Actions agreed for the next few months:

1. Check for approved tyre suppliers other than SDR (with bogie wheels in mind).  Done, British Wheelsets are approved to supply tyres made in Germany, so there is at least one other supplier.
2. Set up a discussion with technical specialist regarding the Boiler.  In progress, We have sent them our draft spec and asked for comments.
3. Following specialist’s comments we meet potential boiler manufacturer(s) to discuss the facets of our locomotive boiler design.
4. Make contact with various specialists who have done similar design work previously.
5. Ongoing Website design work.
6. Proceed with drawing up handrail and other elements to complete the smokebox (done – see below)

To summarise current developments:

1. The coupling rods are forged and we await notification that heat treatment and testing have been completed, also certificates for mechanical tests and NDT.
2. The justification for the coupling rods is with an acknowledged expert for consideration and approval.  Once this gets the OK the same load cases become the ones to use for all the machinery, one of those items which are unseen but really very significant for the project.
3. Another of our volunteers has been working on the bogie wheel stresses and managed some improvement.  We hope to discuss this with our ‘acknowledged expert’ soon when we review the coupling rod calculations outcome.  The aim would be to get the entire roller bearing wheelset approved before proceeding with any procurement as there is so much interdependency.  It is also on the learning curve for the Big One – the crank axle.  By Easter maybe for the bogie wheelset?
4. We might also raise the question of the degree of scrutiny needed if it turns out that the LNWR bogie is fitted under any of the preserved Jubilees.  Also we have got preliminary modelling of the crank axle to discuss.
5. Another of the team has produced a 3D model of the as-built motion, which is good publicity material and provides us with mass and inertia data for calculation forces in the valve motion.
6. Our Repository is up and running.
7. The new Heritage standards are issued.  There is to be a joint ORR/RSSB/AST day at the NRM to present these.  We need to go, for networking as well as for the standards themselves.
8. The chimney base and tube should be complete soon so we can add the cap and fit it to our smokebox.